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Title: “Employers Requiring Employees To Get Vaccines To Return To Work”
Guest: Marc Zwetchkenbaum – Marc Z Legal Staffing
Interviewer: Jonathan Freedman – MAGE LLC

Click here to read the transcript

Jonathan (1s):
Welcome. Welcome back to Radio Entrepreneurs. I’m Jonathan Freedman and our next guest always needs no introduction. Marc Z of Marc Z Legal Staffing with a Marc Z Moment on radio entrepreneurs. Always a pleasure to see you always a pleasure to talk to you.

Marc (13s):
Always a pleasure to be here, Jon, and hang out with you and, and talk about important subjects in the employment workplace.

Jonathan (22s):
So a always topical Marc. You want to talk about vaccines and as we’re seeing and hearing, you know, schools, workplaces requiring vaccination for people to come back in, what are you seeing out there? What are you hearing? What are some of the concerns?

Marc (37s):
Sure. So the concerns are, it’s such a balance between people that have been working a year remotely, particularly in professional services where you can do that. And other people would have to go in still every day that have had the dividers and, and had a head count. So there’s not a, there’s not a lot of people, but surgical group of people in the buildings, but it’s been more voluntary to go into the office. John, it’s not been mandatory once everybody gets vaccinated or the people that want to get vaccinated are vaccinated, then employers have to look at the next steps and what are the next steps under the equal opportunity office guidelines, you can require employees coming back to have been vaccinated.

Marc (1m 29s):
You can require that however, with, with the combination. So for example, if somebody in, so if it’s a definite religious reason, that’s something, if it’s a disability and they can’t like there, some people that literally have that, their doctors have said, you can’t be vaccinated yet because these, these companies, whether it’s, and now you, ironically you see about a pause with Johnson Johnson. That’s now back up, but these companies have done trials, but they really have not been approved by the FDA. They they’ve been approved for distribution on an emergency guidelines.

Jonathan (2m 11s):
And, and, and we’re coming to the realization in this country. And I think, you know, early on, as the vaccines were rolling out, people were thinking, Oh, herd immunity, 75, 80%, not an issue. Well, we’re, we’re seeing it. You know, the 30 to 40% range, we’re starting to run up against the wall of, you know, perhaps we’re not going to get anywhere near that. So, so, so clearly we’re going to have a good segment of the population for one reason or another is not vaccinated. Correct. And, and so really interesting when places start requiring people to have access nation and you may have, you know, one in four, maybe one and a half, and four people are saying I’m not interested or for various reasons, as you’re pointing out, I’m not doing it. So what were you going to be at that point?

Marc (2m 53s):
So what, what most employers say, look, I’m going to take the carrot and stick. And what they’ve done is a third of the employers already have sent to employees. If you go out and get a vaccine, we will, we will give you back. We will give you credit for the hours. So on a regular basis, a number of employers from professional services to restaurants, to rental car companies, they’ve all voluntarily done the characteristic approach and saying, look, you can take two hours off at least per a shot.

Marc (3m 33s):
If it’s a two shot process and then recovery, if you’re not feeling well and it’s attributed to the shot, we’ll give you sick day credit for that. And that’s been a third, another, another 10% companies of this national poll have said they are going to be doing that. And another 19% of companies are considering it or organizations. So that’s the carrot and stick that if you get it, you will not lose time. Or if you will not lose those wages. And now those are voluntary companies. Now, president Biden has come out and said, look, we’re going to look to give you a tax credit employers.

Marc (4m 15s):
If you give the employees time off to get the shots and recover from the shots, we will give you a tax credit because it’s, it’s sort of do good do well. And it’s important. We get it that not having them there is going to be a loss for you financially at the same time. It’s important to get your workers vaccinated if it’s okay. And so they’re giving the incentives to both the businesses, to in turn, give the incentives to the employees. And that’s the carrot and stick approach that is gaining is getting momentum.

Jonathan (4m 54s):
What is, you know, that, that seems to me from an employer standpoint to make a lot of sense, but we’re still gonna have those situations where you alluded to, you’re going to have a lot of people who for various reasons chose to not to be vaccinated. And I think that’s where it’s going to be a challenge for, you know, what sort of enforcement rights does does an employer have? What sort of rights does an employee have? And I think w what we’re going to see is unfortunately, probably a lot of disputes over these issues, and that’s a separate issue to discuss, but it doesn’t a lot of this speak to what is right for me. You know, if, if, if I have no interest in getting a vaccine as an individual and my employers insisting on it, is there potentially a disconnect between our value sets and what’s important to me, and what’s important to my employer.

Jonathan (5m 40s):
Maybe it’s not the right place for me to work. So I, you know, again, I don’t want to start getting into it’s a civil liberties and rights, et cetera, but I think, you know, it’s another take stock, you know, what’s the right type of company for me to work at. And one that share similar values to what I have as an individual and vice versa. And I think we’re going to get into an era of people evaluating that more so than, you know, I, I’m just going to go back to work and, and, you know, cause the argument could go both ways, really Marc, you know, right. One, we, we like to say, well, it’s good for one person. It’s good for everybody. And you’re protecting everybody, but there’s a lot of people who feel very strongly. That’s not right for them. So, so how is this going to shake out?

Jonathan (6m 20s):
You know, for employers, small companies are sitting there saying, well, Jimmy doesn’t want to come back or Jimmy doesn’t want to get vaccinated and we’re not going to let him back in the office.

Marc (6m 29s):
Well, I don’t think again, I don’t think you’re going to the trending is you’re not going to have that situation. Employers that given the carrot carrot and stick approach, there will be those people in each organization that will say, I’m not going to get the vaccine. And if they can show us for health reasons and if they can show it’s it’s for religious reasons, but they have to prove it. The burden is on them. Then what employers have to do is given a combination. So they’ll be when the, when all is said and done, there will be accommodations for certain people where they’ll no longer be able to go in the office because the, what the company is responsible for the welfare of the employees.

Marc (7m 9s):
Now, it’s interesting. I’ve, I’ve always, and we’ve when I’ve run our company. And as over the years I’ve always said, it just doesn’t make economic sense in certain things. For example, if you’re sick, you’re sick, you shouldn’t be in the office. We’ll take the hit because guess what? You can spread. You know, if you have the flu, you can spread it to other people very quickly. Then you’re going to have multiple people out of the office. So employers, if you’re say, if you’re saying, and, and if you’re, if you’re saying, you know what, we need these people in the office, you’re taking a chance that people are gonna get sick. And that’s the same thing with COVID as an employer, you have to look for the welfare of your entire organization, but be respectful of the people who can’t.

Marc (7m 56s):
And that’s where you make an, a combination. Now you might be able to, in certain areas, make a voluntary accommodation, even though you don’t have to. So for example, there might be somebody who at a certain stage in life that technically they don’t fit one of the two boxes, but they have a role where they don’t have to be in the office. For example, if you have a bookkeeper, for example, who’s been doing a lot of work virtually, and it’s working then maybe that bookkeeper can keep working remotely because you don’t need that bookkeeper to come in. If they insist on not being vaccinated. So employers should look at the circumstances, each employee, if the employees will not come back, will not be, will not come back in with the vaccination and employers should look what makes the best sense to keep things moving forward with the company or organization?

Jonathan (8m 49s):
Oh, he’s interesting. Topical. I, you know, we could talk for hours about this because it, it, it is so fresh. And, and at the same time, like everything PO PO potentially polarizing and has a lot of implications and ramifications for people. So, you know, I’ll always get stocky Marc about these types of things and, and to think about what companies need to think about as people re-emerge and, and reenter the workforce, reenter back into their offices. Marc, see if people want to get in touch with you, what’s the best way for them to reach out to you.

Marc (9m 22s):
Thanks, John. First of all, great being on the show. Again, you always get me going too, which I appreciate first global Marc Z M a R C, and the letter Z will come right up or Marc Z, M a R C Z L E G a for six one seven three three eight one 300.

Jonathan (9m 42s):
I like that. Marc. We’re going to have to turn to you for social media advice. You Google Marc Z and you’re the Z comes right up here, right at the top. Excellent stuff. This has been a Marcy moment on radio entrepreneurs and always a pleasure to talk with you as well, Marc, and look forward to further insight. This, this story is not over yet. W we’re going to see plenty more in the, in the weeks and months to come. So this has been another great segment on radio entrepreneurs, and we’ll be right back with another story on radio entrepreneurs.

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