“Disconnects In The Hiring Process” with Marc Zwetchkenbaum of Marc Z Legal

Jonathan (1s):
Welcome back to Radio Entrepreneurs. I’m Jonathan Freedman and our next guest who we always introduced, but needs no introduction. Marc Z Marc Z Legal staffing. Welcome with another one of your great employment updates. How are you?

Marc (13s):
Jon, I’m doing well. Thank you for asking. I’m finally, as I said, finally, walking on the path and I’m glad you’re doing that. Glad to hear you’re doing better too.

Jonathan (23s):
Good. So yeah, we often talk about the marketplace and this really what we’re here to give our listeners an opportunity to, to get updated on what’s happening. And today you want to talk about an interesting topic and one that is perhaps overlooked within the employment realm, and that is communication and coordination. And, and we’re, we’re, we’re all living in a time when things are happening so quickly, and that leads to obviously challenges as well. So tell us a little bit about what you’re seeing and some of the guidance and advice you can give.

Marc (56s):
Thanks, John. So as, as, as you know, it’s like we talk about, it’s like my buying, being able to talk about it. My business is like a lab where we can talk about situations that we’re seeing happening. And one of the trends that were happening is, is as the hiring process gets more challenging and people get busier and people’s lives have so many things going on. There’s a lot of disconnect in the hiring process. So for example, we talked about on the employers side, it’s so important to get back to candidates in a timely way, you know, candidates, they have other opportunities they’re looking at.

Marc (1m 40s):
They have most of, most of the candidates have full-time jobs, candidates are balancing their livelihood and they really need to make decisions at the same time. Employers need to be realistic in terms of when they’re giving an offer in terms of market value salary in Massachusetts, other other states are different, but in Massachusetts, for example, you can no longer know the employee’s salary history, but if the employee is giving their salary expectations of a certain amount, you don’t bottom line them by an era, a globalistic salary.

Marc (2m 22s):
Right? And so what happens is it is a waste of the employee’s time, prospective employees time, the employer’s time. And it just time-wise, you’re also as an employer, you’re losing out on other potential candidates. So you also have your Hiring group that is part of the interview process of the candidate. And a lot of times they don’t understand how in support and for scheduling in terms of timing, because candidates have opportunities in making decisions and other people involved in the hiring process and being able to focus in getting back with feedback on candidates.

Marc (3m 7s):
So on the employer side, it’s really important to really be cognizant of the candidate, moving on into a candidate, getting back to candidates. So they know their status and having people on a timely way and a timely process and way the other, other things I just don’t want to lose. The sense of the other thing is as part of the processes, you know, how we can do zooms now, like we’re doing now we’re WebEx or, you know, Microsoft meetings, a lot of candidates need to still talk during lunchtime or after work or before work because they’re working in the office.

Jonathan (3m 50s):
So as always, you’ve given us a ton to unpack here, but one of the things that strikes me is, is as you said, communication, aligning communication. And a lot of that can be those challenges perhaps can be averted by setting some expectations up front. You know, obviously in our line of work, working as a management consultants, working with a lot of different organizations, we see interview practices, we see Interviewer approaches and, and I’ve heard all of it to, you know, working with the client last week that said, we just don’t have great retention of people that we hire. I said, well, it probably has to do with your screening. You know, if you’re not fitting the right people in, you can’t expect that they’re going to last. And especially now where the tide has changed and it’s an employers, employees market, I’m sure I’ll take a job.

Jonathan (4m 33s):
And if I don’t like it, I’ll leave after three days. Well, that costs an employer, a lot of money, you know, a lot of time, a lot of aggravation, a lot of money. So one of the things that I think is very poorly done in the industry is I think we have a little bit of a holdover and perhaps it’s generational where mid-career professionals, we’ll call them, don’t ask those questions. Can you give me a sense of what your hiring process is going to be like, you know, and for an employer to lay out that process upfront and say, well, we anticipate it’s going to take three to four weeks. And if you’re a successful candidate, these are the stages that are going to go through. These are the types of people you’re going to talk with. And I think setting that expectation up front and having that communication probably clears a lot of anxiety and then also makes it so it’s a much smoother process rather than this vague.

Jonathan (5m 20s):
I had an interview today. I sent a follow-up. I haven’t heard anything in a week.

Marc (5m 25s):
No, I totally agree. And, and candidly, we’ve had candidates who re, who get upset at us because the employer’s not getting back to them. The employers wasting their time, they employer let them believe. After several interviews, maybe they’ll do three interviews in the process that all of a sudden out of nowhere will, you don’t have this, you don’t have that skill. And you’re right. It just it’s creating expectations, having the follow-up and having realistic parameters. So everybody, everybody for the candidates sake and the employer’s sake, because it’s a, it’s a small world we’re in and on the word gets out not only on candidates in terms of how they are, but on employers.

Marc (6m 12s):
I mean, we can be recruiting sometimes and people will say, you know what? I know somebody who interviewed with them, I’m not interested in interviewing with them.

Jonathan (6m 20s):
Right? So, so one of the things that, that I think, you know, you touch on and it used to be, and I don’t know whether the, the, the rules of the trade anymore, once upon a time, it was taboo. Don’t talk about salary in the first interview. Never mentioned it. And one of the things I always feel like kind client should say is, let’s at least talk about, but about a ballpark. You know, if, if your expectation is, you know, six figures and let’s just call it a hundred grand and the position is playing 40 grand, we don’t need to have three interviews to talk because we’re not in the same ballpark. Now the flip side is if the position is paying 40 and you know, I’m expecting 50, well, maybe it does make sense. Now I understand from a percentage perspective, but at least we’re in the same ballpark.

Jonathan (6m 60s):
So are you telling your clients to have that conversation early, at least in some sort of broad brush strokes and give a sense of the expectation or perhaps because you’re aware of the parameters on both sides, you can bring the parties together. It seems to me that that what happens today so often is there’s a complete disconnect on certain subjects that historically may have been taboo. And there’s no conversation until you’re 3, 4, 5 interviews and maybe weeks down the road. And then everybody’s, you know, frustrated because it’s been a waste of time, right?

Marc (7m 31s):
Well, here, here’s the interesting thing. First of all, we always in the very beginning, because now it’s about salary expectations. We say to our candidates, what are your salary expectations? Just tell me what your expectations are. What are, what are they looking to pay? Well today, they’re not allowed to look at your salary history, so they are, but they’re allowed to ask what you’re looking for there. Their attitude is depending on experience. Now, if you’re not a lockstep law firm, or you’re not a corporation that has certain pay pay pro raids and that type of thing, there’s, there’s different kinds of, there are a lot of factors and situations that go into what the ultimate salary is, but we always say upfront, tell us your salary range that we can share with the employer and be realistic.

Marc (8m 23s):
What happens unfortunately? And you know, I get it because it’s an employees market after employees are like three weeks in their salary, demands change. One is they might’ve looked at other opportunities and now they want a higher salary. You just had a situation like this. Luckily it worked out with the employer, but you know, the person gave us a range and it was a good range. And she got an offer. And she said, you know, I’m hearing that people are making more than that. Now, from what I did, can you back to them and see what they can do? And the employer was smart because it would be tough to get a candidate like this. And they ended up agreeing to raise what the original offer was.

Marc (9m 5s):
But a lot of the employers are offering what is in that original range. And the employee is changing their expectations. Once they get down the line, or some employees are saying I’m depending on responsibility, what the employer would do, you know, open what the employer would do. And so the employer says, okay, if they’re open, this is the range. And the prospective candidate said, this is that’s fine. And then all of a sudden we get down the range. So I agree with you. I think that it’s, it is you should not, if you should not talk salary in the very beginning as a prelude to that discussion, you should talk about it.

Marc (9m 47s):
So when you send in your, you know, if you’re not working with a recruiter, if you send in your salary expectations, the employer should seriously look at those salary expectations. If you’re saying I’m looking for a hundred and the job is paying, or you want to only pay 75, then you get back to the candidate and said, I think your salary expectations are not within our ballpark. And if you’re a candidate, don’t agree to go on an interview in any way for a position. If you know what the salary range is going to be. And especially there’s, some candidates will still say to me later, I mean, will, they will say, yup.

Marc (10m 27s):
My range is X and we get them the range. And then we just had this last week, the waiter said to me, you know, they said that they’re looking for 10, 15,000 more than what we said. And I said, we told them the salary. That’s not what they told us. We went back to the candidate. Yes. I thought I would ask for that. They said, what do you really want? I said, well, that’s what we asked you. So it is your, your it’s gotta be a realistic approach on both parties, but you’re totally right there should, prior to that discussion, there should be a realistic exchange. But once the first meeting comes, both parties should be on the same page. So they don’t waste that.

Jonathan (11m 6s):
And I think what can be said about so many things in life, it really comes down to communication, making sure you’re setting expectations, making sure there’s clear communication. And I think candidates feeling a little more empowered to ask questions upfront. You know, I think as the dynamics changed, as the marketplace has changed, I think candidates for their own wellbeing and for the good of the process need to be a little more forthright. You know, you don’t have to be rude about it, but at least ask the question so that they know, Hey, there’s a fit. There’s not a fit. And I, and I, and I think, you know, again, what I’ve seen a lot is candidates are tend to be very reserved. And maybe we have a little bit of a dichotomy to generational dichotomy where perhaps younger candidates feel a little emboldened to be able to ask all the types of questions right upfront, and maybe set that expectation and be realistic.

Jonathan (11m 51s):
But I, you know, I think at the end of the day, those candidate and, and employer match ups that work well, or when there’s open communication, because this is a relationship that you’re going into, hopefully not for a short term. And, and so having open communication is, is critical. So mark, Marc Z always interesting to talk to you, always interesting to get insights, Marc Z with an employment update, what’s the best base for what’s the best way for people to reach out to you if they want to get in touch with you and talk more about their needs.

Marc (12m 22s):
Thanks, John. Well, first of all, great rape and thank you for having me on the show. Great conversations. Always first, they can Google Marc Z M a R C and the letter Z. And all our information should come right up or go to Marc Z. Legal dot com, M a R C Z L E G a l.com or 6 1 7 3 3 8 1 300.

Jonathan (12m 44s):
Wonderful. This has been an employment update from Marc Z Legal staffing, and you’re listening to Radio Entrepreneurs and we’ll be right back with another segment on Radio Entrepreneurs.